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why can’t the followers of sheikh abdul karim also remain silent on this fitnah and not counter attack.
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
There is no counter attack? What is being said about Hisham Kabbani? Is anyone calling him abu Lahab?
As you can see in the video here: http://www.yursil.com/blog/2010/04/another-murid-produces-a-clear-video-on-the-attack-from-hisham-kabbani-correct-link/
Hisham Kabbani gives the murids permission to respond when oppressed, this was his own excuse. There is more information on http://defendingthetruth.wordpress.com
As-salaamu alaikum.
Prior to this recent controversy, I had never listened to any of Sheikh Abdul Kerim’s talks. I don’t see anything at all “crazy” about him here. He is not attacking anyone, but giving good advice on humility. He seems to me to be a rijal of the Tariq, and I benefited from watching this. I honestly can not say the same about his detractors.
Hopefully, everyone can quickly move on from this and get back to the proper business of suluk.
Just re-read the talk on bush and blair and mawlana says, amongst other things:
“And they are supported 100% and should be successful 1000%”
“They have also guardians from jinn and ashabu nuba, heavenly people, to guard them, not to be touched with any harm, st. George bush and st. Tony blair and others.”
Do you have any statements from mawlana contrary to these, to show that they have lost their position now?
Thanks for the help.
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
From Sohbet May 13th 07, Maulana says:
—
Bush is on the Shaitanic network. Khalas.
Yursil, do you also ever doubt or get confused? Or is it just weak people like me?
Because at times, there seem to be a heck of a lot of reasons to get confused in this tarikat, why is that?
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
Doubts and confusion are natural, that is why Maulana gives us Halifes who are so easily accessible to us, so we can air our doubts or even better, see an example of tarikat in practical action. We can develop a relationship with them to see how to progress past doubts and into certainty. When you are around certainity you grow into certainty.
Faith is like that, as Maulana says often quoting Quran al-Karim: “Oh you who believe, believe..” Maulana often mentions this ayat to give an example to us to be a believer and to grow.. that there are levels of belief. InshaAllah we will pass from this world with the strongest faith, with support of our Shaykhs.
Assalamu Aleikum Yursil,
Well said. “when you are in certainty you grow into certainty”. Do you think that this also apply when there’s no connection more with the (Grand)shayk, a possibility of fallback after achieving certainty?
I have been following this blog lately, I have to say it is done with love and good intention. There is a right for defensing, but there’s also a limit. Grandshaykh Abdullah Daghestani has appointed Shaykh Hisham as a helper for Mawlana Shaykh Nazim. We have to respect these words, not for Shaykh Hisham, but for our Grandshaykh Abdullah Daghestani….
The same question also to Shazad or anyone else from “michigan side”.
But is doubt necessarily a negative thing, doesn’t it have it’s place in the scheme of things?
It’s often blind faith and certainty which makes people do all sorts of crazy things (and i’ve seen some of that myself!).
Isn’t a little doubt healthy?
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
When it comes to love, there is no real room for doubt. Does doubt enter my heart about my love for my children? No. Will people do crazy things for the love of their children? Maybe. But it is with the best intent and love. InshaAllah it will come to the best result if they come with a good intention. Develop real love for Prophet (AS) and we will see a new kind of certainty and faith, inshaAllah. It is a difficult goal to reach to, but we cannot aim for doubt, we aim for certainty.
When love comes into it then it has nothing to do with doubt or certainty.
Doubt and certainty are to do with the head; love is to do with the heart.
But one can only love the known, not the unknown, otherwise it’s just imagination, isn’t it?
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
But knowing has nothing to do with the head, its about experience. So doubts don’t factor into the equation. Doubt about what?
When i say doubt i mean anything to do with the head relationship.
So if knowing is intellectual it can also be doubted, and often is.
Love is an experience; knowing isn’t.
Indeed love is a madness, you can even say you’re possessed by it; that’s how intense it can be.
Which knowledge are you doubting?
All that normally passes for knowledge is borrowed and therefore can be doubted.
Most of what people are claiming to be their beliefs and certainties are nothing but deeply suppressed and camouflaged doubts.
Doesn’t Allah say my heavens and earth cannot contain me but the heart of a believer can.
He didn’t say the mind of a believer.
So the ultimate RELATIONSHIP with Allah can only be through the heart.
Maybe this is the wisdom of all the confusion surrounding Maulana; his way of saying, don’t use mind in Tarikat.
No-one else has any contributions to make on this thread, other than brother yursil?
For which i am very grateful, by the way.
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahiim
Asalaamu alaikum Uzma,
Perhaps others are not commenting because the issues you raise are not relevent to the video offered. Perhaps another reason is that it is difficult to make any sense out of what you are asking. You are not being specific about what it is that you doubt, or why you think you are doubting. i have been a mureed of Seyh Effendi Abdul Kerim for three years, mashaAllah, and there has never been any doubt or confusion about this tariqah for me. You must understand that i come from a very independent background, raised to “question authority”, raised in a culture of feminism and critical thinking. And yet once i came to Islam (12 years ago, mashaAllah) there has been no doubt, no confusion, about Islam for me. When i began looking at tassawuff about 5 or maybe 6 years ago, i did not find any of it confusing. i did not start my search to learn about tassawuf with the Naksibendi tariqa. i started elsewhere. i learned about a couple of different tariqas and had a personal relationship with the Grandshaykh of another tariqa. i had never heard of Maulana Nazim, didn’t know him from anyone when i stumbled upon Seyh Effendi Abdul Kerim’s videos. But signs that are too personal to go into here, i knew that he was the shaykh i was meant to find – no doubt, not even for a moment. The only doubt i have ever held was doubt in myself and i would say that is healthy doubt – to doubt that i am anything, anyone, to doubt that i can live up to what is expected of a mureed. Because i do fail more often than i succeed in being a true mu’min or true mureed. But the doubt is never ever a doubt of my shaykh, a doubt of our Grandshaykh, a doubt of this tariqa, or a doubt of this deen, mashaAllah. Reading your comments… i don’t know what to say. You sound like you are talking yourself into confusion, rather than trying to talk yourself out of confusion. Forgive me if i am misunderstanding, but as Yursil has asked you more than once to be specific about what you doubt and you do not answer that… i don’t know what answer you want to hear.
Have i said something wrong in my second to last post, which hasn’t been put up, or am i just being impatient?
apologies I have to moderate all comments and I might miss some. I also wont be around to approve them for a few hours in between so you have to be patient.
Aaminah, thank you for the reply.
I’m sorry if it’s coming across as confusing, what i’m saying.
In summary, i think the very nature of mind is doubt and Maulana has said not to use the mind at all in Tarikat.
I’ve heard it said that even if you say what was the wisdom in that action of the Sheikh, you have failed in Tarikat, especially in the Naqshbandi Tarikat.
i.e. the story of Musa and Khidr.
Uzma, i’m still not sure what it is that you are saying you are confused about then. You say that Maulana reminds us not to question the wisdom in his actions/statements – i agree, i have heard him say that and it makes sense to me. So… are you saying that what is confusing you is seeing a shaykh who behaves in a way that we cannot help but to question the wisdom of it? If so, then yes, i understand your confusion. To that though, i would say that there is a difference between when a khalifa attacks another khalifa… if there is an issue then it is for the Grandshaykh to address it. So, if Grandshaykh is saying something, we do not question it. And my shaykh, i do not question his wisdom. But another shaykh who i see behave in a manner that is not befitting, that is not a misunderstanding… this is different. See, the thing is that in the story of Khidr, what Khidr was doing was justice. Moses did not recognize the justice in Khidr’s actions. But it was just action and the justice of it was made manifest, mashaAllah. But where is justice in name-calling, spreading lies? How could that ever be justice? So, we know right from wrong, we know truth from falsehood. If we are confused about this, we can simply look at, well, what is truth? Okay, and if the truth is this, then that is the side that a believer wants to be on. If there is “wisdom” in what the other is doing/saying, okay, alhamdulAllah… that will come out in time. But to begin with and to end with, we want to only be on the side that is speaking truth. Then there is no confusion. “Truth stands clear from falsehood.” In regards to not using the head in tariqa, i think (i could be wrong and truly, Yursil will correct me, inshaAllah!) it is that we want to rationalize everything, and yet faith is not rational. “The nature of the mind is to doubt”, yes, to look for rational proof for things. So we must turn off the mind sometimes and trust the heart. This is what faith means. So i think that is a small part, a simplistic piece, of what Maulana Nazim means when he says this. InshaAllah this is helpful, if so all good is from Allah.
“So we must turn off the mind sometimes and trust the heart.”
That i think is the problem in a nutshell.
Tarikat requires you totally turn off the mind in relation to the Sheikh.
The moment you turn on your mind, doubt arises, which leads to confusion, and then you have what we have now.
Maulana has said a day will come when only 300 people will CLAIM to follow him.
And out of that, only 50 will be on the RIGHT way.
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahiim
Uzma, i disagree with you. i don’t think that tariqa says “totally turn off your mind”. Tariqa does not require stupidity nor a drone mentality. Not at all. We are told to use our reason. We use in in part in how we choose which shaykh to follow to begin with. And we don’t become mindless idiots once we start following them. But if you have chosen thoughtfully, prayerfully, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, if you see that the shaykh is in obediance to Allah and in accordance with the Sunnah… your doubts are most likely your own ego chaffing at being told something. i also completely 100% disagree that the issue we have now is created by confusion or doubt or that it was caused by someone turning their mind on. The situation we currently have is actually quite simple: it is either acceptable to spread lies and call a fellow shaykh names (and disrespect his wife), or it is not acceptable. There is no confusion. What was said was said publicly and has been repeated on a daily basis for weeks now. What is confusing about that? The things that have been said that are categorically LIES have been answered to and proof of the truth has been offered. What is confusing about that? Further, it is with our minds – which are very much turned on – that we are able to recognize the lies as lies and the truth as truth. If you are confused about the difference between fact and fiction, obvious lies and proven truth, then i’m afraid your issue is well outside the realm of any of us to answer to your satisfaction.
If you have a reason to follow, SOONER or LATER you’ll have a reason to leave.
If the companionship is of love then by its nature it is unreasonable. Have you ever tried to dissuade someone in love?
Yes superficially the madman and the lover appear to be the same.
Yet the inner reality of the two is totally different, after all the Sufis do call Allah the BELOVED.
There is such a thing as Spiritual Madness.
Aaminah to quote from post 20 of yours from above, you say:
“Maulana reminds us not to question the wisdom in his actions/statements – i agree, i have heard him say that and it makes sense to me. So… are you saying that what is confusing you is seeing a shaykh who behaves in a way that we cannot help but to QUESTION THE WISDOM OF IT? If so, then yes, i understand your confusion.”
Yes, reason has a place in shariah, but in tasawwuf, which is a matter of the heart, reason has NO place.
I think it is a very difficult state to achieve, where you can have that level of trust and surrender, but that is the goal.
A little story i heard might illustrate this point better.
Two Sheikhs, a Naqshbandi and a Qadri, were walking with their mureeds. The Qadri Sheikh asked his disciples to jump off a cliff into a stream. They did and he smiled as they had passed the test. The Naqshbandi Sheikh said no they have failed, because as they were falling they thought, what is the WISDOM OF THIS ACTION, of our Sheikh!?
Uzma, just to calrify, i’m not from the Michigan side, infact i’m not from the USA. But i respect ALL Moulanas representatives and i find it reprehensible that in defending one we attack the other, contrary to the advise of Moulana. This idea that we should not refer to ‘talks are being pulled from years ago” to substantiate Moulanas view about something or someone, is rather lame. Moulana has never been more categoric about anyone in the way he has, of the position of Shaykh Hisham. Are we to deny everything Moulana has said in the past on the basis that “it may not be his view today”?
>>Maulana hopes they make the best and speaks as if they will to show them a good picture.
Yursil, as you suggest Moulana does, perhaps people from NY should do the same. It’s strange how we quote Moulana says this and Moulana says that, but then do the contrary!
Uzma, in terms of your question on doubts and certainty – i can only say that doubts occur due to our judgements and preconceived ideas about things, and the path (tariqa)teaches us that everything has its place, and everything comes from Allah, ultimately, the story of Musa and Khidr, as you mentioned, teaches us exactly this.
To Shazad,
I’ve been reading your comments along with everyone elses and there is some sense to be gained from all of this. I’m learning a lot alhamdulillah.
but you wrote,
“Yursil, as you suggest Moulana does, perhaps people from NY should do the same. It’s strange how we quote Moulana says this and Moulana says that, but then do the contrary!”
When you say we, its obvious you only mean Yursil. I respect the way Yursil handles his blog, mashallah. but I have seen you do the same in almost all of your comments. You never give that courtesy to Yursil. sorry, but you seem disingenuous.
Categoric? I think you have a skewed picture based on what you’ve been exposed to, and thats because what the PR machine wants to present.
You misunderstand what I just said about Maulana and Bush. He gives them glad tidings should they choose a certain path. But he also very clearly scolds those that have fallen wayward.
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
You can do as you like… there are categoric statements about generations of Sh Abdul Kerims family, I don’t need to prove anything anymore to you. Whoever wants to learn. , there hearts must be open…
Khidr was initially seen as a MURDERER, a DESTROYER of property and somewhat rather NAIVE (in building the wall for people who were discourteous to him).
The reality of the events was only disclosed to Moses later, due to his IMPATIENCE, after which the two had to part company.
Shazad you’re right, doubts arise due to our judgements and preconceived ideas about things.
This is the nature of the mind because it can never know the full knowledge of anything to make a proper judgement.
Unless a person has a relationship from the heart with the Master, for him a day will come when he too will have to part company, due to his IMPATIENCE.
How else will Maulana be left with only 50 followers?
There is a method in the madness, i think.
mashaAllah
Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim
As salam alaikum Uzma
Maulana Shaykh Nazim’s sohbets were said on so many different occasions and for so many different people. And also he is able to speak in a variety of different ways according to the wisdom of the instant and according to different spiritual lights. We are not even on the categvory of murids yet, so for us to understand direclty his printed books (although he never wrote any book nor is he responsible for the sometimes extremely edited printed versions of his sohbets) a proper way is in reality to start having knowledge of his teachings from someone who is already largely acquainted with Maulana’s teachings, his life, his way of speaking, his personal history, the history of his native land and, last but not least, who has already been trained by Maulana himself through many years making him an authorized interpreter and someone who, though Mualana’s hands and spiritual assistance, has been able to travel the so many different steps in the Way ahead of us.
That is the value of one truthful and perfect khalipha of Maulana.
Keeping in touch with such a khalipha we are a thousand times in a better position to understand according to our even extremely low position anyway, the oceans of teachings from Maulana Shaykh Nazim (qs).
(In the same way that for properly and really understanding Holy Qur’an we must hear Holy Prophet -saaws-, and for understanding Holy Prophet -saaws- we need to hear his Sahaba, his High Companions -raa-, and for understanding them we must go to the saliheen and ahlul zikr -first and foremost the awliya- in our own time).
That is the protocol of knowledge and of learning. That is the adab. That is the sunnah of the Heavenly Messages.
And that is the reason why we love so much Shaykh Abdul Kerim Effendi Hazleteri. He opens for us in a way impossible to do by ourselves the oceans of knowledge and certitude that Maulana Shaykh Nazim teaches. That is an authorized interpreter. Someone with real knowledge of his Master.
If we do that, then certainty will come easily to our hearts. And patience. And adab.
You were asking about doubts and dealing with them. Hear and keep in contact with some real and faithfull khalipha of Maulana (qs). He himself pointed Shaykh Abdul Kerim or this purpose. The nature of the times that we are living in and the responsibilies of Maulana are currently largely other than dealing face to face for personal training with each of his thousands of murids (all of us so stubborn and so extremely below the level of anyone who could indeed sit in front of Sultan al Awliya for being trained by him). He knew that time would come and he prepared some people, like Shaykh Abdul Kerim Effendi Hazleteri (qs) for keeping this more accesible relationship with murids.
Alhamdulillah, I had a thousand different doubts regarding this tarikat. But meeting Shaykh Effendi made everything easy and sure.
That is a way for yaqin, for certainty, a way how to deal with it.
You may start hearing his sohbets. Certainty does not come overnight but if intention is sincere, it certainly comes.
Salams
Nureddin
There is a simple saying when the glass is empty any thing good or bad can be put in there . but if its full with imaan and knowledge you wont be drinking any thing that comes your way. All stones are not equal . If u have not seen rubies (shaykh hishaam) aqeeks(abdul karim) may also impress you. But the ones who know about rubies aqeeks dont lay an impression on them. KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
BismillahiRahmaniRahim
I met both and in fact I organized a big event with hisham kabbani in Rutgers years ago with dr tahir ul qadri. You have your stones reversed… Leaning to call people Abu Lahab from a jewel? Sarcastic wahabi talk about fiqh? Move on.. no one said anything against him from new York but you people sent ny times to assault Sheykh, you sent attack after attack, you sent your poison here and you are getting a response from some murids. That is the best you can hope for. Change your attitude and the topic may change.
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahiim
There is a simple saying that i have heard Sh Maulana Nazim remind us: that we must come to him as an empty cup so that he may fill us, inshaAllah. If we come to him full of pre-conceived notions, then there is no room for him to give us anything to drink from his mercy oceans. MashaAllah, i have endeavored to go to Seyh Effendi Abdul Kerim with an empty cup… sometimes i have to dump my cup of poison in order for it to be cleansed and filled by the wisdom of my shaykh. But always, i have found that what my shaykh fills it with is, though sometimes initially bitter to myself and my ego, always the medicine i need, alhamdulAllah. And always always i find my shaykh is reminding me that as he is the dispensor of the medicine that it is Sh Maulana Nazim who has provided the medicine. AlhamdulAllah.
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahiim
Uzma, i think you are running in circles, and as i said you say one thing in one comment and then something else in another, so i don’t really understand what or why you are questionning. Again, i am not equipped or qualified to answer to you in any case.
“I think it is a very difficult state to achieve, where you can have that level of trust and surrender, but that is the goal.”
Yes, but it is also true that reason is used to determine what shaykh to follow to begin with, as i said, one who we see is following Qur’an and Sunnah and will guide us to do the same. We do not just blindly follow anyone who presents themselves, we are using a certain degree of reasoning at the outset to determine that someone is a genuine shaykh that we would want to follow. There is a saying that the true shaykh is the one who in every moment of his presence you are reminded of Allah and your duty to Allah. It is a matter of “reason” that we recognize that in a shaykh – that he reminds us constantly of Allah. Then, yes, we surrender to that shaykh and stop using our reason, our heart and love take over and we surrender ourselves because we do have that trust that the shaykh is only doing what is best for us. We stop trying to reason our way out of what he prescribes to us, we fall into pure love and surrender all. As you say, that is a very difficult thing to do. But the point is that it begins with rational thought and then turns into faith. When falling in love, in a worldly way, we know that there is a difference between love and lust – we rationally look at if we are really truly in love with an individual and will surrender ourselves to that love, or if we are merely lusting after them and will surrender ourselves for a time but then later grow bored or discover that we hate them. So to say that in matters of love there is no rationality is not entirely true. There is the rational, up to a point, and then there is the surrender and stopping of rationalizing. i am do not rationalize my love for my shaykh or for the Grandshaykh, nor for the Prophet salalahi alahi wa salaam and least of all for Allah. My shaykh is a link to Maulana Nazim who is a link to the Prophet salalahi alahi wa salaam – and it is thru each of them that i am ALWAYS reminded of Allah, for whom my love completely defies any rationality. But yes, it was rational thinking, to a degree, coupled with “irrational” signs that brought me to my shaykh initially. It is because of rational knowledge that i am able to surrender myself to his greater knowledge and fall completely in love without reservation.
And i think perhaps it is best if this is the last i say on the subject. Because i know that i cannot make it all make sense to those who wish to rationalize love, nor is my personal experience the point, but it is all i have the ability to speak to. Again, all i can do is make du’a for you that you find what you are seeking, inshaAllah, and that you be protected while doing so, ameen.
Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim
Salams Abdulhaqq, just in case you do not know, I know a lot of people that have a terribly bad idea of our tariqa (and of Maulana Shaykh Nazim) due to Kabbani’s embarrasing ‘ruby teachings and ruby behaviours’! He is giving a very bad name to us. And I am completely sure that they would think otherwise if they know Shaykh Effendi.
So you choose whatever you want. I also made my choice. I have also heard words from Shaykh Maulana both regarding Hisham Kabbani and Shaykh Effendi.
Do you think I did not hear Hisham Kabbani’s ‘ruby sohbets’? With so much advertisements that he makes for himself, such a new Maulana Kabbani, do you think I did not read or saw videos from him before meeting Shaykh Effendi? I did. And I made my choice, alhamdulillah. Otherwise I would not have taken bayat.
Insha’Allah, although it is not easy, I will prefer to try a way of servanthood rather than … malayani.
Realities are realities. And these are realities just in case you did not know:
http://defendingthetruth.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/reutationofhishamkabbani/
No one has dared to answer that. Face these very simple facts before you start speaking of ‘ruby maarifat teachings’.
And, as you people from Michigan seem to think of him in such an incredible way, let me remind you of the story of someone who was as commonly accepted positively high and certainly knew no less than Ism al ‘Adham, so that you may think again about it, about what is the meaning of a khalipha slandering with insulting statements and refusing to accept that Shaykh Effendi opened a dergah with Maulana’s blessings, and not because he was a crazy mental house drugg addict person, hasha astaghfirullah! Think again about your so called ‘Maulana Kabbani’ after reading it and looking at his behaviour:
http://jamaluliman.blogspot.com/2009/07/woeful-tale-of-balam-baura.html
Nureddin
Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim
Salams
The joke about the title ot Qutb al Mutassarif (as shows the video) has already been explained by brother Yursil.
See the comments in another post, but some foolish ego (one that his Master -an ocean of love- friendly tests with such jokes) will surely feel happy today for having heard that title, although he cannot fool himself regarding that station, let alone his Master, as the bitter fact that had he been such a high Qutb he could not have been in a deeply gross mistake for sooooo long time regarding Shaykh Effendi, Sahib us Sayf, taking him (hasha astaghfirullah) for a liar, a shaytan or even an ‘excommunicated person in tarika’ -as if it were catholic religion at all!!-, also openly showing that he was not even able to know that Maulana (the real Maulana, Maulana Shaykh Nazim) opened himself the osmanli dergah in Cyprus -not even after he was shown the proofs- (such a blind ‘Qutb’, who is supposed to be in charge of so high responsibilities).
So powerful ‘Qutb’ that he cannot give proper treatment to people with problems with ‘the others’ (the ones made from fire). So highly knowledgeable big one that he teaches something against Islam, when he says that democracy is islamic (something Maulana, the real Maulana, has told us many and many times that it is shaytanic and Batil). Etc., etc. If someone does not like to read these words, don’t read them. But these are facts.
He cannot fool himself, and he cannot fool us. But those who like to hear sohbets speaking with no real personal basis about hogh level maarifatullah, those who like numerology, those who like angelology, those who like hearing about chakras and how much karamats they may do some day or how much they may fly in the air closing their eyes in imaginations, illusions and dellusions, or and those who like so many other stuff like that, they take someone praising them and speaking to them about these things over and over and again and again … of course … as a big saint. What can we do if that is their criteria?
Realities are realities, and these http://defendingthetruth.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/reutationofhishamkabbani/ are some of those realities.
But he will surely allow his people, based on that joke, to take him as something that he is not.
However, the criteria is not malayani or baloni talk (excuse me, ruby sohbets, may be) at all. It is simply and crudely … the way of life. What we do. What we did not do.
May Allah make us to be servants and to be away from illusions and dellusions. May Allah forgive us and give us sincerity. We need it. Definitively I need it.
Salams
Nureddin
Peace and AbdlHaq,
I saw your video. I have to give your people credit for trying. You are relentless. It looked like a farce. From Sufi Conference time in 1998 uptil now, I have experience with Sheikh Hisham. There is a lot of farce associated with him, from my own and so many others experiences. I don’t accept him as mutassarif of all creation. But I love Mawlana Nazim and accept him as SultanulAwliya.