“1) American culture is the primary definition of the way we dress, the food we enjoy, the entertainment we seek (Movies, TV, video games).
2) Islam can be understood practically as a filter of the ‘bad’ aspects of the American lifestyle out of ones life. The bad aspects are the obvious haraam (forbidden actions). It can also be an encouragement of the ‘good’ aspects of American life.”
Response:
A culture can be understood as the output of a ‘program’ with various inputs. The inputs, in this case, are principles on theology, philosophy, human nature, rights, etc.
We can see this easily through examples. If the input is the principle that all humans are equal in all ways, then a culture emerges which reinforces that position, with regards to the overall lifestyle including the art, entertainment, workplace, definition of justice, and overall relationships.
The same can work in reverse. If the input is that humans are not equal at all, then a culture emerges which reinforces the degradation of the unfortunate class, and this permeates through the culture down all the way to how news is reported and how different people are depicted in art, film and even casual conversation.
Everyone accepts this so casually that it is largely a matter-of-fact, and we end up with American slavery and the colonial era.
Western culture is the output based on its own inputs, and the fact of the matter is that it is too young to have any firm inputs. The example of slavery is clear on this matter, within a few hundred years attitudes towards slavery changed as a result of new principles being applied. Within another few decades attitudes towards everything from body image, sexuality and religion have dramatically changed.
On the other hand, Islamic cultures which developed out of 1400 years of exposure to Islam also have had their own independent inputs. These principles have stood the test of time. Further to this, Middle Eastern and Eastern cultures did not just deal with Islam as a matter of choice or an alternative lifestyle, it totally consumed their whole being.
This went to such an extent that even non-Muslims in the polity were affected by Islamic culture, much like today where the situation is reversed and Muslims are affected by non-Islamic culture. And frankly, Muslims have been affected even more than their non-Muslim counterparts were in Islamic times.
The situation with Muslims today is that the West defines principles (inputs), and we get a culture out of it (i.e. modern consumer culture), and then Muslims attempt to filter the result through ‘Islam’. The problem with this approach is that Islam is not just a filter of culture. It contains within it the seeds of developing its own culture.
The principles of Islam, when applied in a thorough fashion, led people to a thriving, principally independent, culture from the west. We see in history, when Islam was applied and Islamic societies emerged, that Islamic art was not just ghetto art used now for Arabic calligraphy (link). Islamic music was not harmonizing boy-bands singing about the Prophet (S) (link). Islamic family lifestyle was not the American dream. Islamic governance was not based on boards of trustees. Muslim children weren’t raised with a Muslim muppet on TV (link).
But if Islam remains a filter, that’s all we’ll ever get. A slightly adjusted version of a culture we already know. We won’t get music that’s entirely our own, we won’t get a dress that is entirely our own, we won’t get art that entirely our own, we won’t have a perspective that is entirely our own, and we certainly won’t get a spirituality that is entirely our own.
Historically, converts to Islam, and specifically we see this in the European converts of the pre-industrial age, were people who totally accepted adoption of faith, principles and culture. When they converted, yes, they totally adopted the culture and perspective of the people which taught them Islam, and they abandoned that which was based on kufr in their hearts. They had no alternative, really. They knew what they were putting aside and what they were picking up.
But today, even Muslims born into the faith find it unfathomable to wrap their minds around the concept that some basic attachments to Western culture needs to first be abandoned in order to build something Islamic.
We all know the maxim, “if you see something wrong the least we can do is dislike it in our hearts.” But today we give excuses to this capitalistic materialistic society and try to find why it *is* Islam, and why its cultural output is ‘not so far’ from Islam. Just let us tweak it here and there. Add some minority-fiqh and it’s all legal too. Rationalization at its finest.
Forget abandoning Western culture and principles from which it arose, we don’t even want to dislike anything about it in our heart.
Is it even possible to put aside Western culture completely? Probably not. We can never forget Rocky or LOST. However, with commitment and a guide who is carrying that Prophetic message, we will see that slowly there is an independent alternative. Leaders such as that replace a void with something fresh and growing and alive.
But at the same time we must know it is difficult to separate from any lover, even ones who are bad for us. So, of course, inching progress will occur and compromises will be made. But until this fundamental decision is made in the heart to (at least) incline away from the current cultural hegemony, little progress towards a true Islamic lifestyle in one’s own household will be possible.
the truth on 
m.a.kidwai,CME/IND.RLY.(retd.) on 
Brilliant!
Thank you for verbalizing what I have been feeling for a long time.
While I have benefited from posts put here previously about the Ottoman heritage, I feel the need to respond.
This post, unfortunately, indicates a shocking ignorance of Western culture and civilization, and attempts to homogenize it into one bland mass-market phenomenon. If the article wished to aim a diatribe specifically against the consumerist and mass market culture of American society, this is one thing. Yet to fully paint such a broad swath of human civilization in black strokes does not give any weight at all to the possible nuances and opportunities available for Muslims to live in the West with any dignity or social cohesion, true to their own traditions, just as they have time and again in the past, and continue to do today.
While the critique of “capitalist culture,” if we mean, strictly speaking, a culture that is based on the materialist, populist drive that attempts to appeal to the lowest orders of the ego, certainly seems a valid one, to critique all of Western Civilization, presumably including the writings of such visionaries as Emerson, Thoreau, Dickinson, and some of our most impassioned commentators in the West such as Gatto, Postman, Illich and others, or since we are speaking of the West as some monolithic whole, presumably inclusive of Europe, why not throw in Michel de Montaige, Goethe, and Shakespeare while we are at it? – are all somehow impossible to call “our own” and thus “UnIslamic” is something truly astonishing in its shortsightedness and blindness to historical precedent within the context of the history of the spread of Islam. I would refer the poster here to the articles of Dr. Umar Abdullah (for example, on China), to the various lectures of Shaykh Murad, and also, to Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and Imam Zaid Shakir’s excellent articles and lectures where similar subjects have been discussed. Please: let us keep our critiques as specifically appropriate as we can, and not spread about flames of hatred and mistrust. It is this type of hate-mongering that alienates many of the new Muslims in the West, and is used as a means of self-aggrandizement for Muslims “of the East.” And Allah Knows Best.
Your Brother,
Niaz
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
I think there is only one real question in your comment
We are speaking of the West as it applies to us in a modern reality, that which is presented not in theoretical terms of long passed authors, but the actual resulting society which they had a hand in influencing and building. And this is the society which Muslims are attempting to integrate into while claiming they are living an Islamic lifestyle. I don’t believe anyone, even in the West, is attempting to relive Shakespere’s lifestyle.
Should these authors be “critiqued” against the principles of Islam? That depends entirely if one feels their input is necessary to enrich Islam in your life. To me, the answer is they can be largely discarded. Or at least, the need for the input of these authors is extremely secondary to that of their brilliant and saintly contemporaries in the East. Again, this is if your goal is not Western conformity but Islamic spiritual progress.
For someone who disagrees, a critique against *Islamic principles* would be the least necessary thing before one implemented any of their philosophies in one’s life..
I would wonder whether any sane person could think that reading Othello reinforces Islamic spiritual and cultural progress?
Does reading Emerson reinforce an Islamic spirituality? Or does his Transcendentalism harken more towards the Perennialists which I believe all your Islamic scholars listed above have disregarded as heresy?
It goes on and on… In the end, have these works come from the pen of those who attempted to subdue their ego or indulge in it? Did they accept the Prophet (S) or consider them a heretic? Who do we ally ourselves with?
If it is not known, I am a Muslim born and raised and living in the West, and this is my take on the situation that I have experienced.
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
In response to Niyaz:
To say that Yursil’s post reflects what you term “shocking ignorance of Western culture and civilization” is in and of itself shocking in its ignorance.
I would assent to your comments, and in fact agree with you, if Yursil’s criticism of Western culture was somehow inclusive of an Islamic or Muslim identity. If Yursil were to make a generalized comment about “Chinese culture,” or “Moroccan culture,” or “African culture,” then we would indeed have something to be upset about.
But Yursil’s post revolves precisely around the premise that Western culture itself is inherently un-Islamic. To read the narrative that history has produced up to this point in any other fashion is to blind oneself in favor of attempting to conform to this Western culture.
The authors you have mentioned, Shakespeare, Emerson, etc., though certainly brilliant, were nonetheless Kafirs. I cannot read their hearts, perhaps they were people of faith; but the Islamic maxim is that if a man dies without having declared the Shahadah openly, we must term him an unbeliever.
So I ask you; why should I look to conform to a culture that was produced by those who did not believe in the Most Noble of Messengers, the Best of Creation, Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW)? Especially in the case of men like Thoreau, Emerson, Gatto, etc., who knew the Prophet (SAW) but still insisted on not believing in him, why should I follow them?
I ask the last question especially in light of the fact that, as a Muslim, I have been honored to inherit a 1400 year old tradition of enlightenment, gnosis, and humanity that was unparalleled in the Western world. Why should I sacrifice the sacrifices of those who went before me simply so that I can wear a tie to work and please myself by saying, “there is nothing wrong with the society around me?”
The solution you propose is certainly easy. But it is not the solution that is necessary to maintain Islam. Yes, the Muslims of China, of India, of Chechnya, and so many other Muslim nations produced a new culture. But all these cultures were ready to sacrifice the kafir elements of their past to herald a new era of Islam. What we are doing today is the opposite. We “moderate” those aspects of Islam that are now ancient or “for that time.” The Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (SAW) has been left behind so that we can look cool and fit in. We can fit in if it makes us feel good. But then we are not of the group who were described by Rasulallah (SAW) when he said “Islam began as something strange, and it shall return to being something strange, so give glad tidings to the strangers.”
As long as we feel comfortable, we are not the strangers. As long as we fit in, we are not the strangers. As long as we sacrifice our Islam to the golden cow of Western civilization, we are not strangers.
Wake up. This culture is dead. Even those who are living in it understand that. Perhaps you read the great philosophers of Rome and Greece, of the enlightenment and postmodernism, and think that this civilization is great. That time is over. Western civilization today is MTV, consumerism, and destructive warfare. This is the progeny of the West, the ultimate culmination of the philosophy that you profess to admire. Any light that ever existed in the darkness Western civilization came from Islam.
Open your eyes. This culture is dead. This civilization is dead. The day that is being born is that of Islam. Insha’Allah we will be of the strangers.
al salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. i’m sorry for leaving this comment, but i couldn’t find a different way to contact you. i’m doing an essay in my history class on the Ottomans, particularly the period from 1876-1904. i’ve noticed you have a lot of posts about them and was wondering if you could recommend some reading material for me. jazak Allahu khayr.
abd al Shakur
Tell me where exactly does Belly-dancing and honor killing fit into all of this?
Anyways the difference between your idealized Muslim culture and the West is that in the Muslim majority countries we are the majority thus have a heavier impact. What you are proposing is identity politics that will not work for the majority of born Muslims in the west nor western converts.
Oh as for converts adopting Muslim values, have a look at Abdul Hakim Murad’s piece on ward the pirate, he makes a point in that, that not every convert was adhering to the “new lifestyle”.
BismilahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum Phil,
Although you think of I am addressing an idealized Muslim culture (and I may be), to me having a positive view of Muslim cultures does not mean that the culture defined perfection and existed without deviations.
Honor Killing fits nowhere. In the east, ‘honor killing’, especially of child infants, was in fact something completely eliminated whereever Muslim saints reached to spread Islam.
But the same principle applies, if Islam is used as a filter of culture, then anti-Islamic principles will remain.
Luckily for us, Islam was not used *just* as a filter of culture, this gave us a rich cultural history of spiritual and physical progress. And of course, Muslim cultures had already passed through 1400 years of Islamic filtration, who knows what barbarism was lost to the sands of time.
This centuries old process resulted in only a handful of isolated anti-Islamic principles practiced in the scattered minds of the ignorant.
Does Western culture want to start-over in this regard and subject itself to 1400 years of Islam before it rids itself of, say, abortions or gang warfare?
As far as ‘belly dancing’, I’m not certain what the issue is exactly, what goes on in your bedroom is not really any of our business.
I read that piece by Sh Murad, it speaks little to your assertion.. In fact it states quite the opposite:
Did people remain Muslim ‘under-cover’, especially during the Inquisition? Of course, but there can be no doubt that they did so as a ruse of protection.
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Alaykumsalam,
I would suggest “The legacy of Sultan Abdul Hamid II”
http://www.islamicgoodsdirect.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/1690
Three Years in Constantinople – On Domestic Manners of the Turks – Charles White
Discovering the Ottomans – Ilber Ortayli
Osman’s Dream – Finkel (read with care)
For a slightly earlier time period
A Culture of Sufism -Le gall
The fact of the matter is most Ottoman history books suffer from fatal flaws of bias, and that too, unbacked and unreferenced bias. So this is something to keep in mind when reading Western narrations of their history.
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahiim
Asalaamu alaikum.
Respectfully, i think Yursil is suggesting the exact opposite of “identity politics”, which is something that Western Muslims have engaged in to excess and is one of the roots of the very problem at hand that leads them to see only two alternatives: either a wholesale adoption of Arab (or Desi or other) culture – which is still only culture and not necessarily Islamic, OR the creation of an “American Islam” that selectively picks and chooses which aspects of Islam are most likely to be tolerated and therefore easy to maintain. i believe that Yursil is recommending a completely different way, which is looking to those who live Islam holistically and are not bogged down in any culture to which they are attempting to fit Islam, but who fit themselves and their lives to Islam and discard any cultural entrappments – whether Western or Eastern – that are incongruent with that Islamic lifestyle. The reason that Western Muslims are being particularly addressed is, i suspect, that Yursil is himself a Western Muslim and therefore why would he address something to or about how Muslims elsewhere might conduct themselves in an Islamic manner?
The fact that many Muslims, including converts, have failed to adopt a “new lifestyle” is exactly the point, so pointing out that this has at times happened in the past is not really relevent. The majority of societies exchanged the haram in their society for Islamic values and practices upon conversion, nevermind what a few individuals may have done or not. However, in this day (which is what we are talking about – current matters), Muslims have done the exact opposite, as a whole, and it is the rare few individuals that have completely adopted the Islamic lifestyle (myself included in those who have failed to do so).
As to the other points, they have no relevence to the topic at hand, except as further proof of Muslims who have not changed their values to match Islam, and are merely being raised as a smokescreen and mockery of Islam and the need to exemplify a truly Islamic lifestyle.
Bismilah
SHAYKH NAZIM SAYING:
The whole world is now under shaitanic hegemony or direction, and always
oriental people including our people, never like to be from oriental people.
They look to themselves and ashame, if they come to be known as from Asia or
Oriental countries, ashaming to say what they are and where they live,
because western people always look down on them.
And in reality Shaitan has destroyed the western countries. They are not
civilized, but their image is shown as being on the top of civilization.
From out looking you may say: ‘Oh, first class people’, but inside they are
rotten. And Shaitan is asking to make Islamic countries to be like western
countries- outside and inside rotten, destroyed, and he is teaching the
leaders of the Islamic world, urging them to try to be western people. As
the Prophet informed 15 centuries ago, warning his nation: ‘Should come a
time, when the last days are approaching, that my nation, who accepts me as
their prophet and accepts what I brought from my Lord, the Words of the Lord
Allah Almighty, should try to follow the People of the Book before them-
Ahlul Ingil and Ahlul Taurah, Christians and Jews.’
The problem with Muslims today in the West and the Middle East is that their point of reference is Western culture and not Islam. Islam is then modified and twisted to conform to Western culture. The West is seen as the pinnacle of success and we need to strive for that success. That is why the Arab muslims are enamored with Dubai for it is a mirror image of the materialistic West. They boast of its achievements to show the world that we are just as capable and competent in competing with the West and even surpassing them.
This is all a symptom of hoob al dunia or love of this world prophet Mohamed peace and prayers be upon him warned us about. We look at the West and are infatuated with its facebooks, i phones, hollywood movies, expensive cars, etc. Our goal is simply to obtain that secular degree so we can move up the hierarchy and obtain that coveted position and six figure salary. Deen and ilm are relegated at best an hour a week for we also need our entertainment ie, movies, eating out, watching basketball, concerts, parties.
We have little time for the suffering ummah in Palestine, Chechyna, Kashmir, etc. We are always apologetic about Islam so the West will accept us. We practice the outward but the inward is hollow. Until we get our priorities right and change our point of reference, we will remain stagnant as a society and slowly recede.
That was a appalling underhanded comment. I’ll tell you what happens is that Bellydancing is still alive in the middle east(including Turkey) and honor killings exist in mostly Muslim majority populations. Can’t exactly dismiss those things as non issues just because the reality of the culture of Muslim states was different from what we want it to be.
Oh and did you miss this part?
“Some were among the most pious Muslims this country has yet produced. Others were famous drunkards and lechers.”
Lets for the sake of it go along with your argument my question is, this has been happening in the Muslim world for 1400 years(changing the inputs) and there are still un-Islamic aspects, then why are we not giving the West 1400 years to get to the same page?
Selam Aleykum Phil,
To say your comment is “appalling” would be an understatement, specifically the last line, but I’ll get to that later. I think a little bit of intelligence and common sense would go a long way in this ‘debate’. For instance: Yes, belly dancing is still alive and thriving in different areas of the middle east today. Honor killing exists as well. But the question here is, ” Is it Islam”? Why did you stop there? I’m sure rape occurs and occurred in the middle east as in the states. What about thievery? Is that Islamic/muslim culture. And of course, the answer is NO. I’m sure Yursil isn’t speaking of the current climate in so-called muslim countries today – which are all secularly governed, but instead is harkening back to our traditional sunnat which we, in the majority, have left. I mean, of course muslim countries today are not reflective of the saintly history Yursil is pointing to. Wasn’t that the entire point? Post WW1, divided and conquered by the British and America, No khalifa, political boundaries and maps redrawn, dummy democracies installed – didn’t you get the memo?
Also, Islamic culture implies a culture based on worship. Western is now, synonymous with secular, meaning – get rid of God in our government, schools, etc. It’s not Christian, or Jewish culture where comparing with Islam. While religion exists as a “don’t ask, don’t tell” for much of the west today, how does that compare with the purpose of Islam, and Islamic lifestyle, namely, to worship and know your Lord?
And finally, why aren’t we giving the west 1400 years to get to the same page? Because this isn’t just an academic discussion, on let’s see who’ll have the last laugh. It’s a serious appeal to changing our lifestyle model, so we go clean from this world. It’s personal to each and every one of us. We may go from this world today, or tomorrow, or 10 years from now. Point is, we don’t know when. Do we really need for the west to catch up with Islam, when we have Islam now?
Also, hasnt the west been around for longer than 1400 years?
mike, if you want to have an honest discussion, take it offline and contact me via email. my name @gmail.com