Umar Lee on RIM: Rand Institute Muslims – Point 2
Umar Lee continues writing about identifying ‘Rand Institute Muslims’:
The Way They Support Palestine
The only international political issue you will hear RIMS speak on (besides maybe Dafur or opposition to so-called honor killings and female genital mutilation) is Palestine. This is because they can speak on behalf of Palestine without using the language of the Islamic Movement. In their advocacy for Palestine they do not quote many actual Palestinians or the likes of Sheykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi or Sheykh Safir al-Hawali. Instead they will quote non-Muslims (often atheists who are hostile to any religion) such as Noam Chomsky and John Esposito. They will also never verbally support an Islamic group, such as Hamas, who are fighting for liberation based on the principals of Islam. In this they are ceding the political argument to secular forces in Palestine and here in the West they are just making an alliance with, and using the arguments of, the secular left.
Abstaining from supporting an institution which openly considers suicide bombing as ‘martyrdom operations’ and perfectly legitimate and halaal, is a problem? Is losing more promising Muslims in one-off bombs that accomplish nothing the only solution? Really?! How pathetic we are.
“The Hamas movement is prepared to stop terror against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians … We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians.” – Abdel Aziz Rantisi
Do we have to buy into this to be a non-Rand-Muslim according to Umar Lee?
Does Umar Lee support Hamas and everything that organization has done? Can’t we support the Muslims without supporting another post-modern political party claiming to be representatives of the people while being unable to defend them one iota and sucking Muslim money dry?
There has been no more well funded Muslim political party than the Palestinian parties. They have accomplished zilch and left the body bags in their wake. That is the truth, blame the Zionists and Americans all you want. The Muslims didn’t blame the Kuffar in Uhud, and they didn’t even claim their victory in Badr (R) through their own hands and political agitation.
Sincere Muslims leaders are people of faith, of miraculous support from Allah. This story of Umar (R) is cited by Imam Suyuti and helps us understand the capabilities of real Muslims and leaders:
Umar was delivering the khutbah on the day of Jumu’ah and then he turned aside during his khutbah and said, ‘Sariyah, the mountain! He who asks the wolf to be a shepherd will be wronged.’ People looked about, one to another. Then ‘Ali said to them, ‘Let him explain what he meant.’ When he had finished they asked him and he said, ‘It occurred to me in my mind that the idolators were defeating our brothers who were passing by a mountain, and that if they were to turn towards it, they would fight on one front only, but if they passed by it they would be destroyed. So there came out of me that which you claim you heard.’ He said: The messenger came a month later and mentioned that they had heard the voice of ‘Umar on that day, and he said, ‘We turned towards the mountain, and Allah gave us victory.’
We need real Muslims like Sayiddina Umar (R) who know how to be Muslims in this manner, not modern revolutionists who talk a lot, accomplish nothing and are truly looking for excuses to find Che Guevara in Islam.
We don’t need to side with the Democrats or Republicans in the States. And real Muslims, not those hyped up on anger and over-compensating for lack of a father figure and white-guilt, don’t need to side with any political party outside of the states to prove their sincerity to anyone.
We don’t have to have to play this game invented by Umar Lee’s (philosophical?) forefathers. Islam operates on a completely different level.
the truth on 
m.a.kidwai,CME/IND.RLY.(retd.) on 
Salaam alaykum from Montreal Ya Sayyidi Yursil,
Hear! Hear!
AA- Yursil,
Excellent post! You summed up what I’ve been saying recently as well. Namely, we need to put aside our reliance on political parties and military solutions and return to that which was mastered by our forefathers – faith and reliance on Allah (swt).
Assalamu alaykum,
I agree with the gist of your argument, and note ironically that it is almost identical in it’s criticism of Hamas and other ikhwan movements as Hizb ut-Tahrir’s criticism of ikhwan’s political participationary politics. However for the sake of our lord (azza wajjal) I must correct you on a couple of points. You say;
“Can’t we support the Muslims without supporting another post-modern political party claiming to be representatives of the people while being unable to defend them one iota and sucking Muslim money dry?..There has been no more well funded Muslim political party than the Palestinian parties. They have accomplished zilch and left the body bags in their wake.”
Hamas ARE the elected representatives of the the people, they don’t simply claim it. Hamas has not received the billions of dollars from the gulf countries, EU, and US that secular Fatah and the PLO recieved (for selling out) – despite Hamas not getting any aid money it actually achieved much more than “zilch”, it set up and managed most of the social care and hospitals throughout Palestinian areas and earned the respect and devotion of many through austerity, piety, aid work and other social / medical work. It was secular Fatah and the PLO that were thoroughly corrupt and hence why they were elected out in 2006. Yes, the PLO achieved “zilch” and just left body bags in a nationalistic (not Islamic) struggle. But the wave of change came with Hamas who have rejected nationalism contrary to your first post, and Hamas have dropped the suicide bomb policy – in favour of trying to get on with governing but this was thwarted by the Egyptian/ Israeli blockade & siege. Before the blockade and siege, Hamas had plans to abolish all the militant groups, and form a national organised formal army not attached to party politics, offer Israel a 25 year ceasefire, in order to build Palestinian society and lift it from abject poverty. Hamas did have many good plans but because they did not suit Israel nor the secular socialist Arab leaders & Fatah, their plans were thwarted. Just like (as you say) it’s no good constantly blaming the west for loosing, we should look at ourselves and ask about our relationship with Allah, I would also request that it is no good you constantly blaming what you call “modern revolutionists” for all failings, maybe we should again look at how we failed our in our relationship to Allah by failing to help our brothers too? I would also like you to send me a private E-mail as to what you suggest Hamas or the Palestinains do to liberate Palestine and Al-Aqsa, rather than criticising the people on the ground who know that reality better than us? I am sincerely interested in your proposed solutions, and please don’t say Khilafah because although Khilafah is what we all want, what about now? Are the palestinians supposed to sit and die and be wiped out while they wait for a Khalif, or wait in Sabr?
I also advise you read this statement from the Ulema:
http://www.radicalmiddleway.com/articles.php?id=3&art=109
Sorry brother, I had one more thing to add: We may disagree with “Suicide bombings” it may be Haram in our fiqh, but it is a point of valid ikhtilaaf in the Shariah. The scholars have differed over it, see what Shaykh Bin Bayyah says on the valid difference on this. You need to remember that unlike most nations in the world, every Israeli adult is a soldier, part of the IDF, and does rotations in it. I can see where some Ulema come from when they use this as a basis for their fatwa. This situation is unprecedented.
Hassan: But is there ikhtilaf on the issue of suicide bombings that are indiscriminate and that result in the killing of children??
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
Salamu’alaykum
They are the ‘elected representatives of the people’, indeed… a fickle thing people are.
The real question is are they the ones chosen by Allah and guided by the Awliyaullah?
A hospital can cost millions to start and millions to operate, where did these lowly Hamas Dervishes find such funds for such social and medical work? Are the Hamas farmers that they are growing such resources such a food and water to aid the impoverished?
How long did that take? Were the people simply unaware of the corrupt nature of Fatah and PLO until 2006? This electoral process is ridiculous.
I am not the one losing brother, shukr Alhamdulillah. My failings have their own consequences, but frankly it is not at all at the level that Hamas and modern ‘Islamic’ political movements are losing. So I will analyze myself, and you analyze yourself. I do not ‘constantly’ blame anyone.
This message is for those such as Umar Lee who want to criticize the masses because we dont line up with our Hamas T-Shirts.
There is no doubt, Hamas is the lesser of two evils, but don’t expect me to consider them anything other than that.
Are you a Hamas policy maker? I’m sorry whats the point of this private correspondence again? Ineffectual ‘Scholars’ can condemn all they want, they result in nothing for real people affected by this tragedy.
Salaam aleikum,
Though many parts of your refutation of Umar’s posts do have some merit (especially in relation to Qwardawi, the Ikhwan’s failed methodology, and Saudi funded Salafis). It fails on most objective measures to disprove that hamza yusuf is indeed (either willingly or unwillingly) part of the RAND efforts at modernizing and eliminating Islam politically as a threat to Western domination of the Muslim World. You have said nothing about any of the following:
1. Leaked UK govt. report urging the promotion of Tariq Ramadan, Suhaib Webb, Hamza Yusuf, and Amr Khalid to combat “extremism” (whatever that means):
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/musl-j03.shtml
2. Perhaps in part they were inspired by his racist rants in this article immediately post 9/11 here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/08/religion.uk
3. He then subsequently went to the UK and defended his own followers at the Radical Middle Way in the UK taking govt. funds (much like the heretical Quilliam Foundaion):
audio:
http://www.radicalmiddleway.co.uk/videos.php?id=1&art=1&vid=10
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5fApgQUvBM
4. You have also largely ignored the fact that among the MuslimWakeup crowd, Hamza is worshiped just like any other “rock star” or pop idol on any TV program:
Hamza Yusuf – The Voice of God:
http://www.muslimwakeup.com/main/archives/2004/09/the-voice-of-go.php
“The next evening, while we waited for Hamza Yusuf to arrive, I heard a young woman standing behind me tell her friend, “Even if Hamza Yusuf had three wives, I would kill to be his fourth wife!” What followed was the distinct sound of my brain shrinking.”
source: “Zaytuna’s Smelly Kebaabs”
http://www.muslimwakeup.com/main/archives/2004/10/zaytunas_smelly.php
5. May it in part be due to the fact that he uses the same language (“Progressive Islam”) as they do?
http://www.themodernreligion.com/world/progressive-tradition.html
6. Keeping many of the SAME associations with the Sufis which (even you concede) Umar does a good job exposing:
http://www.sunnah.org/events/hamza/khatry.htm
(pics are worth a thousand words).
7. And this is not to even gloss over the obvious — i.e. defending meeting with Bush post 9/11 when former national security advisor Richard Clarke and 2 of his former cabinet members testified to the 9/11 commission that on Sept. 12th 2001 Bush had wanted to bomb Iraq but was talked out of it:
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/mar/20/world/fg-clarke20
8. We can also not forget the recent fiasco over meeting with Tony Blair and his “Malaria NO more” initiative:
Smiling with a war criminal:
http://pmunadebate.blogspot.com/2008/10/smiling-with-war-criminal-and-war.html
This was followed by Zaid Shakir writing a public letter changing his story TWICE as to how this “meeting” or function came about (i.e. hamza yusuf was “tricked” and then later “not told” that he would be sharing a stage with Blair):
http://pmunadebate.blogspot.com/2008/09/zaid-shakir-on-hamza-yusuf.html
More associations with promoters of RMW and neo-cons here:
http://pmunadebate.blogspot.com/2008/10/tony-blair-foundation-liberal.html
9. Confused political thinking which manifested itself with grandstanding, hyperbole, and rhetoric lapped up by his deluded followers. This interview speaks volumes:
“Majority of American constitution is Islamic”
http://hamzayusuf.faithweb.com/others/American_Muslim_hour.html
“..Islam is an intelligent religion. The laws are there to serve human beings; we are not there to serve the law. We are there to serve Allah, and that is why whenever the law does not serve you, you are permitted to abandon it, and that is actually following the law. That is where the confusion lies because people do not realize that. The law is for our benefit, not for our harm. Therefore, if the law harms us, we no longer have to abide by it.You cannot worship the sacred law because the law is there to serve you; it is for your maslaha, your benefit, and that is our fiqh.”
source: “Question of Hijab These Days”
http://muslim-canada.org/hijabthesedays.html
10. This is to say nothing about the larger thesis that Umar does make (and which the RAND report explicitly lays out) and that is not denied nor refuted by you:
That sufism IS being promoted by both the U.S./UK govts. as a way of destroying political opposition to their imperial plans for the Muslim world. A recent cursory look over what the Economist wrote on this illustrates this:
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12792544
along with the pro-Israeli U.S. News & World Report which outlined how 3 different U.S. govt. agencies conferenced on promoting “moderate” sufi Muslims in preparation for invading Iraq. They EXPLICITLY said they MUST change Islam to suit the new political reality:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050425/25roots.htm
in the UK think-tanks and govt. bodies do pretty much the same thing (though on a more local level):
http://www.ukwatch.net/article/how_thinktanks_shape_the_agenda_on_muslims_in_britain
————————————–
I will stop here for now, but there is a LOT more than just this. However I don’t expect that you will either publish this comment nor allow room for any objective discussion (since many of his followers are emotionally attached to that which they adore). In the end, I will put my faith in Allah (swt) that the Muslim Ummah will be able to see, hear, and undertand that which is the truth.
salaam aleikum,
sameer
Yursil, you’re the last person in the world who should comment on this topic as I have never seen you condemn the actions of Hisham Kabbani and his treacherous manhaj, nor has your shaykh, Nazim Haqqani, condemned him.
As for Hamas and your ridiculous comments blaming them, then what do you say about the many “Traditional” ‘ulama who support Hamas and approve of suicide bombing.
BismillahirRahmaniRahim
Salamu’alaykum,
Guess if you’ve never seen it, it didn’t happen:
http://www.yursil.com/blog/2006/05/statement-of-non-association-with-naqshbandi-michigan
“Our message to Sheykh Hisham Kabbani’s Naqshbandi group, and to all others who are attacking us, is that they should stop the attacks on us. They should stop partnering with enemies of Islam.”
As for Hamas, if I consider them the lesser of two evils rather than faultless heroes that I should support 100%, that is my point of view. What other traditional scholars say, is their point of view. Neither opinion makes me a Rand Institute Muslim.
Yursil, I read that so-called condemnation of Kabbani which is not really condemnation, but an intra-Haqqani dispute. Since your volunteering YOUR opinion on Hamas, which holds no weight, what is your opinion of Hisham Kabbani, who is a “Rand Institute Muslim” as manifested by his actions and behaviour including his colloboration with the enemies of Islaam, inciting the kuffaar against the Muslims, praising the actions of the American goverment. etc?
BismillahirRahmanirRahim
My opinion of them is: “They should stop partnering with enemies of Islam.””
Are you having trouble reading this message?
Thats good. Do you think there are shuyookh or du’aat who are “Rand Institute Muslims”?
Yes, some intentionally, some unintentionally… some due to the actual leader, and some because they are misled/misinformed/manipulated by people who surround them. But again, I don’t think not having 100% support for Hamas or considering them a lesser of two evils makes anyone a Rand Institute Muslim.
Like who? Name them?
Why?