Comments on: The Corruption of History and the Loss of Identity – http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/ islam, muslims, history, excerpts, life Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:43:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Irving http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31685 Irving Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:22:59 +0000 http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31685 A most excellent post, brother :) I have long been a reader of Lord Byron's poetry, but have not read this book as of yet. I will now. Ya Haqq! A most excellent post, brother :) I have long been a reader of Lord Byron’s poetry, but have not read this book as of yet. I will now.

Ya Haqq!

]]> By: yursil http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31676 yursil Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:44:16 +0000 http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31676 Salamu'alaykum Omar, Please Omar, go away. I didn't expect you to visit manuscript libraries, but I do expect you to back up your claims with some references to where your English histories got their information, which you haven't. Uncited histories, which make no reference to completely contradictory notions need no further attention. As far as the claim on wine: <blockquote> With the banishment of Ottoman Turks and the arrival of Germans from the Rhine region, viticulture became the main economic sector in the nearby village of Gudurica http://www.serbia-tourism.org/srpski/main.php?naziv=Wine%20Routes&dat=vino_e&poc=vrs</blockquote> Meaning the Ottomans suppressed viticulture even in the non-Muslim areas where it was a primary trade. However, in some areas they continued to allow its trade between non-Muslims within Ottoman territories and the non-Muslims of Europe (who, if anything, were weakened by it), this was highly regulated by a commissioner. Unlike the Taliban who could not provide for its people while eliminating the opium trade, the Ottomans chose an intelligent approach of allowing enemies to weaken enemies and remain a non-burden on the state. Once they were capable, even that office of the comissioner was eventually abolished and made completely illegal in 1678 <strong>(ref Osmans Dream, pg 278). </strong>. This too is the Sunnah of the Prophet (S), gradualism in abolishment. So, again, we have an empire that ruled and gave blood (as above) for 700 years with Islam held high as shown above, and we have you and I, with all our deficits and lack of accomplishments, unable to keep our own houses together much less an empire. Anyway, no one is obliging you to adopt the Ottomans. It is just a point of view, in a ocean of many. Some have proofs and some don't. I have seen enough proof for it for my own self, and shared some with you. Its up to you to reconcile that in whatever way you want. If you think its right, well I am glad you were able to put your nafs aside and to be able to accept that. If you think its wrong, please move on, there are plenty of modernistic ideologies waiting for you to escape your parents roof to join them. -Yursil Salamu’alaykum Omar,

Please Omar, go away.

I didn’t expect you to visit manuscript libraries, but I do expect you to back up your claims with some references to where your English histories got their information, which you haven’t. Uncited histories, which make no reference to completely contradictory notions need no further attention.

As far as the claim on wine:

With the banishment of Ottoman Turks and the arrival of Germans from the Rhine region, viticulture became the main economic sector in the nearby village of Gudurica

http://www.serbia-tourism.org/srpski/main.php?naziv=Wine%20Routes&dat=vino_e&poc=vrs

Meaning the Ottomans suppressed viticulture even in the non-Muslim areas where it was a primary trade. However, in some areas they continued to allow its trade between non-Muslims within Ottoman territories and the non-Muslims of Europe (who, if anything, were weakened by it), this was highly regulated by a commissioner. Unlike the Taliban who could not provide for its people while eliminating the opium trade, the Ottomans chose an intelligent approach of allowing enemies to weaken enemies and remain a non-burden on the state.

Once they were capable, even that office of the comissioner was eventually abolished and made completely illegal in 1678 (ref Osmans Dream, pg 278). . This too is the Sunnah of the Prophet (S), gradualism in abolishment.

So, again, we have an empire that ruled and gave blood (as above) for 700 years with Islam held high as shown above, and we have you and I, with all our deficits and lack of accomplishments, unable to keep our own houses together much less an empire.

Anyway, no one is obliging you to adopt the Ottomans. It is just a point of view, in a ocean of many. Some have proofs and some don’t. I have seen enough proof for it for my own self, and shared some with you. Its up to you to reconcile that in whatever way you want.

If you think its right, well I am glad you were able to put your nafs aside and to be able to accept that.

If you think its wrong, please move on, there are plenty of modernistic ideologies waiting for you to escape your parents roof to join them.

-Yursil

]]> By: yursil http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31660 yursil Mon, 05 Nov 2007 01:38:30 +0000 http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31660 Salamu'alaykum Noufal, you would be surprised at actually what is available. This book can be found in full-text on Google Books. There is also a series by Charles White about his travels in Istanbul which is a great read as well. Of course, in both there are parts which need to be taken with a grain of salt, and inaccuracies and missed subtle political games still remain, but when perusing through other travelogues these two seem to stand out from the pack as actually having a positive thing or two to say. Salamu’alaykum Noufal,

you would be surprised at actually what is available. This book can be found in full-text on Google Books. There is also a series by Charles White about his travels in Istanbul which is a great read as well. Of course, in both there are parts which need to be taken with a grain of salt, and inaccuracies and missed subtle political games still remain, but when perusing through other travelogues these two seem to stand out from the pack as actually having a positive thing or two to say.

]]> By: yursil http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31659 yursil Mon, 05 Nov 2007 01:35:24 +0000 http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31659 Salamu'alaykum Omar, People in glass houses should not throw stones. Fix yourself up first and then come to this blog with comments. This is my home, my name on the URL. No need to expect that I won't moderate comments using my judgement. You disagree with me, and you have failed to research anything truly. So lets just leave it at that before we enter subjects that force me to break protocol. -Yursil Salamu’alaykum Omar,

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

Fix yourself up first and then come to this blog with comments. This is my home, my name on the URL. No need to expect that I won’t moderate comments using my judgement. You disagree with me, and you have failed to research anything truly. So lets just leave it at that before we enter subjects that force me to break protocol.

-Yursil

]]> By: Omar http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31647 Omar Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:08:35 +0000 http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31647 :) This, I take it, is some sort of a response, brother? I'm flattered. Really I am. Posting irrelevant responses is so much better than just deleting my comments and leaving it at that. Your wahhabi brother Omar :)

This, I take it, is some sort of a response, brother?

I’m flattered. Really I am. Posting irrelevant responses is so much better than just deleting my comments and leaving it at that.

Your wahhabi brother
Omar

]]> By: Noufal Ibrahim http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31624 Noufal Ibrahim Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:43:21 +0000 http://www.yursil.com/blog/2007/11/the-corruption-of-history-and-the-loss-of-identity/#comment-31624 This sounds quite interesting. The entire 700 years of the Ottoman Caliphate is a dark region of history for me. Do you recommend any books which one can get easily that discusses the nature of the Muslim Turkish societies back then? Books published in 1836 are probably a little hard to come by in 2007. :) Wassalam. This sounds quite interesting. The entire 700 years of the Ottoman Caliphate is a dark region of history for me. Do you recommend any books which one can get easily that discusses the nature of the Muslim Turkish societies back then? Books published in 1836 are probably a little hard to come by in 2007. :)

Wassalam.

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