I’ve been dissappointed by how many conservative websites have taken the view that Islam is inherently evil. I never really paused to think about how deep and scary that feeling is.
As I can see, you are a man of your word. How unfortunate that even the conservatives of the West are claiming Islam is evil. I have come to learn on my own as I said. I hope that if not welcomed here, at least I may be tolerated enough to speak and perhaps answer questions and learn as well. To your readers:
I am an American. I am a former U.S. Marine and a veteran of the fighting in Beirut in the 1980’s. I am a Christian, albeit in the eyes of the church, a poor one in the fact that I do not attend services. I have my Bible, and I read from the New Testament of Jesus’ words on how to live and treat others. Perhaps then we can both learn.
I have come to learn about Islam from Muslims. I have come to learn your point of view on matters that concern us all. I can answer questions, but know that any answer will be my own opinion and not U.S. Government policy or belief. It may not reflect the majority belief of my own nation.
I am here because of what Yursil’s post has made reference to, that Islam itself is getting to be considered evil. I think that the Media and the “rampant ego’s” on both sides are getting us nowhere except further apart.
I ask forgiveness on a few points. I tend to speak directly to the point, I ask that you do the same. I am in Yursil’s “house” here. If he (or Islam) require that I begin and end each post with an Islamic quote or saying then I will do so. But I do not know your phrases for this and I ask patience if that is to be required of me.
I look forward to learning from you and perhaps giving you an insight from a different perspective.
I think you will definately be welcomed to my humble abode. Everyone here is very interested in learning
Feel free to greet Muslims anyway you feel comfortable! I don’t require anything from anyone except politeness and sincerity.
I hope you will come to learn of our peaceful tradition and feel free to ask questions of any terms that you find confusing or cannot find a meaning for.
Peace Yursil:
And thank you for inviting me to learn. I begin with a question, What is the Injeel? I am surprised to learn that you have read the New Testament! I cannot say I have read the Quran, though in my journey to understanding I make it my intention to do so. Another question if I may? What other reading would you or your brothers recommend to educate me me?
If you read the New Testament, it says that Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) came to preach the “Good News” aka Gospel.
So for us the Injeel is that Gospel that Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) preached. Some of that meaning is captured in what is commonly known as the Gospels within the New Testament, but when we refer to Injeel we are talking about the source of all of those books that Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) came with, his message.
If you wanted to read the Quran, I would recommend the translation by A.J Arberry “The Koran Interpreted” … It tries to keep the original poetic style somewhat.
To learn about Islam there are many resources available, the Quran is the best book. In practicality a knowledgable Muslim is probably the best resource
Other resources delve specifically into what you are interested in.. history? theology? the Prophet (Peace be Upon Him)?
As a Christian, it is my belief that the ’source’ for Jesus’s message is what is known as “The Holy Spirit” or the Spirit of God, in other words God speaking to us through Jesus. That it was written many years later is strange, but, the fact that it was written to be preserved and teached is what is important here I think. And was it written so much later or is this a copy that came to us from the original writings of the 12 Disciples?
Thank you for the advice on which books to obtain. In response to your questions the History would be my first choice. I see you have links here that I will look into.
We believe that Jesus’s (Peace Be Upon Him) source was also God and that he was supported by the holy spirit. Similarly we believe God spoke to other prophets.
But, when it comes down to it Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) did not write a book, his disciples tried to carry that message in their own versions of the story of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him).
So Muslims believe the Injeel came from God, and was transmitted to Jesus and it was his message. But we do not give the highest authority to the New Testament as we do not believe it is directly the Injeel (Gospel) but an attempt at his disciples to capture Jesus’s (Peace Be Upon Him) life and story.
Muslims give great respect to the New Testament, to the point that sometimes there is confusion over calling the New Testament the Injeel, but according to our scholars it is not. We refer the Injeel to that original message Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) received from God.
Similarly Muslims believe the Prophet Muhummad (Peace Be Upon Him) came with a message from God, verbatim. That is what we call the Quran. We take the utmost care in its preservation.
I will find a few good history books for you for different eras.
Greetings Jarhead,
It’s wonderful to discuss matters close to ones heart with someone interested in them. Thanks to the kind of propaganda that Yursil is talking about in his post, it’s getting harder and harder to find such folks.
Your suggestion for books on history I think is a nice way to proceed. My lack of knowledge in that department stops me from recommending any though.
Like Yursil said, the ideal way to learn our religion would be to speak directly to a knowledgeable and pious Muslim.
I hope you find your search a fruitful one. Please let us know if there are any questions we might be able to help you with.
N:
Yes, it is refreshing and wonderful to be able to speak with you here on these matters. I for too long simply accepted the lies the MSM and others spoke. I think though there are more and more people wanting to find out for themselves the true meaning and intention of Islam.
Where the problem lies as Yursil has said, is not Islam, but the leaders who have taken it out of context for their own personal gain in power, luxury and ego. We in the West unfortunately have the same thing.
I too decided it was time I learned on my own what Islam is about. I am amazed at how much Islam and Christianity have in common, and yet how different we are as well. I’m sure that with the help of You and others, I
will find what I seek.
Yursil:
Ah! Now I understand Injeel. As a Christian, I feel the power of Gods word written in the NT, whether it came directly from Jesus (He is Risen) or written by scribes, is to me, unimportant, but the message is the Spirit of God. It is the message itself that should move us and guide us.
Welcome to the best Muslim blog on the web. I’m not Muslim. I’m barely even religious. However, I’ve learned a lot through Yursil. Both a better understanding of Islam as well as personal enlightenment on my own beliefs.
Everyone is very friendly here and open to constructive discussions. I don’t post much because I have the pleasure of knowing Yursil in real life. Trust that you can’t ask him anything that I probably already haven’t asked myself. He is a wealth of knowledge and gives a good insight into Traditional Islam.
I feel fortunate to have known him, to keep me well grounded with all of the other sources of information that tend to have a biased towards fear and hate.
Again, welcome and I hope you are successful in your quest for knowledge.
Later on you may wish to look into Islamic history of specific periods for example, the times of al-Andalus when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived side by side until the inquisition. Also the time of the Ottomans would be intruiging to you.
Thank you for the link, from there I have also ordered the Arberry “Koran Interpreted” as you suggested. Will make some interesting reading.
From what I have found, there are 4 books that make up the Islamic faith, 3 of which are in the Christian bible, the first 5 books of the Old Testament as we refer to them, the Books of Moses, Book of Psalms, and the Gospels of the New Testament, (the disputed Injeel). Having read the Bible cover to cover, I will have to re-read these Books along with the Quran to understand (hopefully) the Islamic Faith.
More confusing to me were the Hadiths and how they are the dividing factor between the sects of Islam. But I will save studying those for another time.
Peace Jarhead Walaikumsalaam (translates: And May Peace be unto you)
Yup, you got it right!
As far as the books of the Old Testament, we accept them all as Divinely revealed. The only condition is that we believe that they were modified or adjusted over time by man, so for all matters of actual stories of the prophets we generally turn to the Quranic accounts as the final authority.
I think the Quran will be what you need most, and that other book will put it into context. Be sure to read the preface in the Arberry translation it provides insight into what is lost in translation from the poetry of the original.
Generally, most Muslims do not own a copy of the Old Testament and New Testament, though we hold them to be Divinely revealed texts, the differences between their accounts and the Quranic ones can cause confusion.
The Hadiths are supplementary accounts of the Prophet Muhummad’s (Peace be upon him) life. Generally, these are not too different across sects of Islam, the biggest gap being between the Sunni and Shia.
There is however a very deep science in determining the authenticity of a report of a saying of the Prophet (Peace be upon him), however this is a matter for well trained Islamic scholars.
November 10th, 2006 - 12:07 pm
Check my new blog .. http://blackturban.wordpress.com
November 15th, 2006 - 5:23 pm
Peace Yursil,
As I can see, you are a man of your word. How unfortunate that even the conservatives of the West are claiming Islam is evil. I have come to learn on my own as I said. I hope that if not welcomed here, at least I may be tolerated enough to speak and perhaps answer questions and learn as well. To your readers:
I am an American. I am a former U.S. Marine and a veteran of the fighting in Beirut in the 1980’s. I am a Christian, albeit in the eyes of the church, a poor one in the fact that I do not attend services. I have my Bible, and I read from the New Testament of Jesus’ words on how to live and treat others. Perhaps then we can both learn.
I have come to learn about Islam from Muslims. I have come to learn your point of view on matters that concern us all. I can answer questions, but know that any answer will be my own opinion and not U.S. Government policy or belief. It may not reflect the majority belief of my own nation.
I am here because of what Yursil’s post has made reference to, that Islam itself is getting to be considered evil. I think that the Media and the “rampant ego’s” on both sides are getting us nowhere except further apart.
I ask forgiveness on a few points. I tend to speak directly to the point, I ask that you do the same. I am in Yursil’s “house” here. If he (or Islam) require that I begin and end each post with an Islamic quote or saying then I will do so. But I do not know your phrases for this and I ask patience if that is to be required of me.
I look forward to learning from you and perhaps giving you an insight from a different perspective.
November 15th, 2006 - 6:03 pm
Peace Jarhead,
I think you will definately be welcomed to my humble abode. Everyone here is very interested in learning
Feel free to greet Muslims anyway you feel comfortable! I don’t require anything from anyone except politeness and sincerity.
I hope you will come to learn of our peaceful tradition and feel free to ask questions of any terms that you find confusing or cannot find a meaning for.
November 15th, 2006 - 6:17 pm
Peace Yursil:
And thank you for inviting me to learn. I begin with a question, What is the Injeel? I am surprised to learn that you have read the New Testament! I cannot say I have read the Quran, though in my journey to understanding I make it my intention to do so. Another question if I may? What other reading would you or your brothers recommend to educate me me?
November 15th, 2006 - 6:43 pm
Peace Jarhead,
If you read the New Testament, it says that Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) came to preach the “Good News” aka Gospel.
So for us the Injeel is that Gospel that Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) preached. Some of that meaning is captured in what is commonly known as the Gospels within the New Testament, but when we refer to Injeel we are talking about the source of all of those books that Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) came with, his message.
If you wanted to read the Quran, I would recommend the translation by A.J Arberry “The Koran Interpreted” … It tries to keep the original poetic style somewhat.
To learn about Islam there are many resources available, the Quran is the best book. In practicality a knowledgable Muslim is probably the best resource
Other resources delve specifically into what you are interested in.. history? theology? the Prophet (Peace be Upon Him)?
November 15th, 2006 - 7:03 pm
Peace Yursil,
As a Christian, it is my belief that the ’source’ for Jesus’s message is what is known as “The Holy Spirit” or the Spirit of God, in other words God speaking to us through Jesus. That it was written many years later is strange, but, the fact that it was written to be preserved and teached is what is important here I think. And was it written so much later or is this a copy that came to us from the original writings of the 12 Disciples?
Thank you for the advice on which books to obtain. In response to your questions the History would be my first choice. I see you have links here that I will look into.
November 15th, 2006 - 7:31 pm
Peace Jarhead,
We believe that Jesus’s (Peace Be Upon Him) source was also God and that he was supported by the holy spirit. Similarly we believe God spoke to other prophets.
But, when it comes down to it Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) did not write a book, his disciples tried to carry that message in their own versions of the story of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him).
So Muslims believe the Injeel came from God, and was transmitted to Jesus and it was his message. But we do not give the highest authority to the New Testament as we do not believe it is directly the Injeel (Gospel) but an attempt at his disciples to capture Jesus’s (Peace Be Upon Him) life and story.
Muslims give great respect to the New Testament, to the point that sometimes there is confusion over calling the New Testament the Injeel, but according to our scholars it is not. We refer the Injeel to that original message Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) received from God.
Similarly Muslims believe the Prophet Muhummad (Peace Be Upon Him) came with a message from God, verbatim. That is what we call the Quran. We take the utmost care in its preservation.
I will find a few good history books for you for different eras.
November 15th, 2006 - 10:01 pm
Greetings Jarhead,
It’s wonderful to discuss matters close to ones heart with someone interested in them. Thanks to the kind of propaganda that Yursil is talking about in his post, it’s getting harder and harder to find such folks.
Your suggestion for books on history I think is a nice way to proceed. My lack of knowledge in that department stops me from recommending any though.
Like Yursil said, the ideal way to learn our religion would be to speak directly to a knowledgeable and pious Muslim.
I hope you find your search a fruitful one. Please let us know if there are any questions we might be able to help you with.
Peace.
November 16th, 2006 - 11:21 am
Good morning and Peace to all:
N:
Yes, it is refreshing and wonderful to be able to speak with you here on these matters. I for too long simply accepted the lies the MSM and others spoke. I think though there are more and more people wanting to find out for themselves the true meaning and intention of Islam.
Where the problem lies as Yursil has said, is not Islam, but the leaders who have taken it out of context for their own personal gain in power, luxury and ego. We in the West unfortunately have the same thing.
I too decided it was time I learned on my own what Islam is about. I am amazed at how much Islam and Christianity have in common, and yet how different we are as well. I’m sure that with the help of You and others, I
will find what I seek.
Yursil:
Ah! Now I understand Injeel. As a Christian, I feel the power of Gods word written in the NT, whether it came directly from Jesus (He is Risen) or written by scribes, is to me, unimportant, but the message is the Spirit of God. It is the message itself that should move us and guide us.
November 16th, 2006 - 4:24 pm
Hey Jarhead!
Welcome to the best Muslim blog on the web. I’m not Muslim. I’m barely even religious. However, I’ve learned a lot through Yursil. Both a better understanding of Islam as well as personal enlightenment on my own beliefs.
Everyone is very friendly here and open to constructive discussions. I don’t post much because I have the pleasure of knowing Yursil in real life. Trust that you can’t ask him anything that I probably already haven’t asked myself. He is a wealth of knowledge and gives a good insight into Traditional Islam.
I feel fortunate to have known him, to keep me well grounded with all of the other sources of information that tend to have a biased towards fear and hate.
Again, welcome and I hope you are successful in your quest for knowledge.
November 16th, 2006 - 8:51 pm
Peace Jarhead,
I recommend the following book for you:
http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-History-Islam-John-Esposito/dp/0195107993/sr=1-15/qid=1163724562/ref=sr_1_15/104-6552517-4058323?ie=UTF8&s=books
Later on you may wish to look into Islamic history of specific periods for example, the times of al-Andalus when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived side by side until the inquisition. Also the time of the Ottomans would be intruiging to you.
November 17th, 2006 - 12:00 pm
Peace Yursil, (Assalamu Alaykum? is that right?)
Thank you for the link, from there I have also ordered the Arberry “Koran Interpreted” as you suggested. Will make some interesting reading.
From what I have found, there are 4 books that make up the Islamic faith, 3 of which are in the Christian bible, the first 5 books of the Old Testament as we refer to them, the Books of Moses, Book of Psalms, and the Gospels of the New Testament, (the disputed Injeel). Having read the Bible cover to cover, I will have to re-read these Books along with the Quran to understand (hopefully) the Islamic Faith.
More confusing to me were the Hadiths and how they are the dividing factor between the sects of Islam. But I will save studying those for another time.
November 17th, 2006 - 1:23 pm
Peace Jarhead Walaikumsalaam (translates: And May Peace be unto you)
Yup, you got it right!
As far as the books of the Old Testament, we accept them all as Divinely revealed. The only condition is that we believe that they were modified or adjusted over time by man, so for all matters of actual stories of the prophets we generally turn to the Quranic accounts as the final authority.
I think the Quran will be what you need most, and that other book will put it into context. Be sure to read the preface in the Arberry translation it provides insight into what is lost in translation from the poetry of the original.
Generally, most Muslims do not own a copy of the Old Testament and New Testament, though we hold them to be Divinely revealed texts, the differences between their accounts and the Quranic ones can cause confusion.
The Hadiths are supplementary accounts of the Prophet Muhummad’s (Peace be upon him) life. Generally, these are not too different across sects of Islam, the biggest gap being between the Sunni and Shia.
There is however a very deep science in determining the authenticity of a report of a saying of the Prophet (Peace be upon him), however this is a matter for well trained Islamic scholars.
Any questions, feel free to ask!